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Archived Message:

PayPal - is it the right tool to sell with?

Johnny I can't believe it, I made an E-Book and have sold some copies.  

I have been selling my E-Book at auction sites and accepting payment by PayPal.  Now I am making a web site to sell my E-Book.

Should I keep using PayPal?  Is there a better way?

Posted on: 2:06 am on November 21, 2000
EBookCompiler Hello Johnny

I posted info on your related question about downloads here:http://www.ebookfriends.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=1&topic=1

Regarding different methods of accepting payment this page may be of some help

In my *opinion* PayPal is okay, except some people don't have PayPal accounts, and it is not easy to totally automate your sales process with PayPal.  Try using a payment processor, like ClickBank if you want a more automatic way to process orders.

Posted on: 2:25 am on November 21, 2000
ebookpro Yes, Johnny

I have to agree with Sunil that Clickbank is a good choice since that is what I use for eBooks N' Bytes.  I was also recommended by a good friend of mine who is an ebook author that Verotel.com is also a decent choice.  I can't personally recommend it since I haven't tried it but I trust his opinion.

Eva :-)

Posted on: 6:56 am on November 22, 2000
Les Doll I, too, endorse ClickBank and have been using the service for about a year with NO problem.

Clickbank also has a very easy to set up affiliate program that has been working well for me.

Well worth looking into!

Posted on: 6:47 am on November 23, 2000
LoriTaylor Well...nothing very unique to say here!  I use Clickbank too, and they have been fantastic.

PayPal is not very good for impulse buying, because some of your potential customers won't be registered and it takes them a few days to DO that and be approved, you know?  SO...I stay away from using that as an option.

I did have ONE gentleman who already HAD a PayPal account, ask me if he could use it, and I agreed since I have one myself.  He was trying to be kind and save me the 7% that Clickbank charges per sale.  That was very nice, and I of course, agreed.  However....as a rule....NO, I would not personally recommend PayPal.  You are just cutting off a portion of your market and that's not wise, IMHO.  

Posted on: 6:12 am on December 13, 2000
EBookCompiler A couple of other things I might add

ProPay - any comments?  This seems a PayPal like solution, but doesn't require the buyer have an account to pay you.

PayPal - I'm not using myself.  I think it is unfair to clickbank affiliates to accept payment via PayPal, as they don't get credit for it.  This is certainly a consideration for which clickbank programs I participate in.  Another issue is most people don't have PayPal accounts - and from what I understand if you are outside the US, it is not easy to get a PayPal account activated.  I think this is because there is additional CC verification features for US addresses online, but for non-US you have to do part of the activation by mail....  kind of a pain for somebody opening an account...

UK users - you might want to check out WorldPay.  This is a merchant a/c solution, not as cheap as clickbank, but looks more flexible and easy to get your hands on the money sooner.

(Edited by EBookCompiler at 2:01 pm on Dec. 13, 2000)

Posted on: 2:00 pm on December 13, 2000
Len McGrane God thing about ClickBank is it handles affiliates. I see that Verotel also does this--with the added advantage of having NO SET UP FEE. (A saving of $50.00) Eva, can you ask your friend to tell all of us about his experience with Verotel, and particularly how buyer-friendly it is? Anyone else reading this have a Verotel story?


Posted on: 11:09 pm on December 17, 2000
ebookpro I'll ask him... when I did sign up to be an affiliate for his ebook, I did notice that Verotel gives you ready made links and graphics to use (seemed a bit more restrictive than Clickbank.)  One thing I like about Clickbank is that even if you didn't recommend someone to one of their merchants, you occasionally get credit if a visitor visits one of their merchant sites without your active promotion of the merchant's site -- I noticed sales from programs that I didn't even mention on my site but I guess they were tagged with my affiliate id from a previous recommendation of another clickbank merchant... great bonus!  

I'll see what his experience with Verotel has been and report it back here...


Posted on: 1:46 am on December 18, 2000
Neenah13 I posted a similar request for payment info to the self publishing elist I belong to, and got the following results:

While several are using PayPal, most are using Clickbank or ProPay for the electronic version of their books.

Most of us, however, need or want to offer our stuff in a tangible form as well, and therefore need a place that will allow both forms of our books to be offered for payment.  

One author told me that she offers PayPal along with other options as PayPal users are passionate about wanting to use PayPal as their payment method.  Since it's free, and it allows me to sell both electronic and tangible merchandise, I posted it as one of the ways a customer can pay. After all, some of your customers may well be PayPal users already.  I already had a PayPal account because I had needed to pay for some text books I bought to home school my son. (It didn't bother me to have to sign up myself. I didn't experience any problems in doing so, either.)  

I'm using CCNow for the tangibles, for those who want a CD or floppy version-- or print when I can offer that, or a t shirt.  Revecom.com offers both ways, but it does have set up fees as well. Just at the moment, I need free.  But, as soon as I'm able I will sign up with Clickbank so that I can enjoy the automated features.  That, by itself, is worth the set up fees to me.

The advantage, it appears, of ProPay over PayPal, as far as having to be manual, is that you are able to verify the legitimacy of the credit card order before you allow the download or send the e-mail book.  This may cut down on fraud and charge backs.  


Posted on: 4:56 pm on April 21, 2001
EBookCompiler testing (ignore this message)

Posted on: 4:50 pm on August 6, 2001
dibonni I've used RegSoft for site sales with no problem. So Far.


They have a pretty good customer support and they say they eat any charge backs. That may or may not be so. Haven't had the chance to try that part out yet.

Best part is it doesn't cost to sign up and the cost is reasonable also.

Posted on: 11:50 pm on February 6, 2002
JohnDodson Well personally, and this is only my opinion, if you like pouring hundreds of dollars a month down the drain then keep using ClickBank, Cardinal, CCBill, and all those other ones that want a fortune for processing.

I however, charish the time I put into my publishing and don't want to pay that kind of money so I figured out my own solution.  PayPal is great, I give my customers instant access with it, and what I'm losing from customers that don't have PayPal all I can say is I'm not paying it to ClickBank.

Necessity is the mother of invention and believe me there are other ways than paying merchant services that just want to rip you off.

See for yourself.

Posted on: 6:52 pm on March 26, 2002
Pooja Hi,

I don't know if PayPal is the right way for rec. payments etc. I have not used it since it does not let me link to an Indian bank. But I have found some posts online and emails which say that paypal has a reputation of blocking your account for no reason at all. The stories are placed up at a site called PayPal Warning -www.paypalwarning.comand the stories seem pretty real.  It also says that there are cases filed against PayPal.

Though I am not sure if any of this is true, I just wanted to pass on the info. Hope this helps.


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Posted on: 11:33 am on March 27, 2002
JohnDodson Yes Pooja,
It is true that PayPal has frozen accounts but the reason for it are legal ones.  They(PayPal) as many other businesses have choosen to cooperate with authorities in combatting illegal drug sales, child **** ography, and other various internet **** s and dealings that are illegal.  So when ordered to freeze accounts they have done so.

Also, since the funding source for your PayPal account is your checking account and credit cards, you can't be overdrawn or over your credit card limits.  Unforntunately, many people can not control their spending habits and when their credit card or checking account has been shut down by their own institution, PayPal protects themselves by freezing your account.

However, PayPalwarning.com didn't mention that.  Which just makes me wonder what the author of the site was doing when they froze his account.

I have made several thousand dollars through PayPal in the last six months and I project I will be doubling that amount in the next three months, but I have no worries because I am not doing anything illegal and I'm not abusing my accounts.

So, it really just comes down to what you feel is a better choice for your needs as far as sales.

Posted on: 2:27 pm on March 27, 2002
EbookHeaven I use Clickbank, though I am less than happy with their fees, they are the best choice for me. If possible, I would offer both payment choices to your customers. With luck, PayPal members will use the Pay Pal button, while the others will use the Clickbank link.

One last thing. I believe Clickbank is the better system (on the technical side) I have made quite a bit using the affiliate system. Also, I think Pay Pal leaves the download URL open for all to see.

Am I right about that?

Posted on: 3:49 pm on April 15, 2002
JohnDodson Yes,
Once you order through paypal and get to the continue link that would take them to the down load it is visible through the status bar and address bar.  That is why I have customers download first, open the ebook, and order from inside the ebook.

This way I can take the status bar off of the browser and there is no address bar.

Paypal is loaded inside the ebook and the customer doesn't see a thing.

Posted on: 11:50 am on April 16, 2002
EbookHeaven Hi John,

>Paypal is loaded inside the ebook and the customer >doesn't see a thing.

Nice. But I have one reservation with this method. It will only work if you use one of the HTML compilers. I have used a lot of these over the years, but I have found my customers prefer other formats. As you have probably guessed, I sell fiction and HTML compilers are not really suited to this.

Before you reply and disagree, I will explain. Those people willing to buy and read fiction as an ebook, don't really want an EBOOK, they want a book that they can buy and read RIGHT now. An ebook fits the bill, but they want the same things print offers. Things like pages, mobility, lending, blah, blah... I might not agree with all they want (I do actually) but I know that I have to give them what they want.

I use Mobipocket (Prc) to give those people who want mobility what they want, and ReaderWorks Publisher (Lit) to those who don't mind using their laptops but want a nice paging system. Pdf is for people with Macs or those who insist on printing (surprisingly, a few still do this)

I advocate using HTML compilers for non-fiction because breaking a book of 400 pages into single html files for paging is too much hassle. The most I will do is break it up into its 32 chapters and link them together with a TOC.

Which compiler are you currently using?

Posted on: 1:01 pm on April 16, 2002
JohnDodson I use Ebook Compiler, which I let the customer download, read a few pages and click on a paypal button to pay for the rest.  They go through paypal then are given their password immediately and are in the book instantly.

As far as the customer not get the same thing as they do in print, I can't see how that is other than their not holding a book in their hand.

The construction of the html ebook is crucial so that it has the same ease of navigation as a print copy does.  To achieve this you have to use a forward and back method with a TOC for chapters only.

As far as lending, if you mean lending to someone else, that is what you want to eliminate.  Otherwise, you'll end up finding sites with your books posted.

PDF is a good system but the password system is limited and the person has to download the reader also.

However, it is really about what suits your purpose the most.  If you feel that the way your doing it is good for you and your customers then I agree with you.

Posted on: 2:05 pm on April 16, 2002
EbookHeaven Hi John,

Am I wrong that Ebook Compiler works like other HTML compilers in that the forward button works like your Internet Browser's forward button? In other words, it doesn't work until you have visited the next page once already.

It has been a little while since I used Active Ebook, I don't think I ever bought it, but I have a demo of it somewhere. I did buy a number of others HTML compilers and they all had this problem.

Out of interest, how would you create an ebook using Ebook Compiler-- the book is 467 pages (paperback size) in 40 chapters and is fantasy fiction without links or pics.

I have found that a TOC of 40 chapters is as close as I can get to decent navigation in my old HTML ebooks. Each chapter has a link to the TOC and the next/previous chapter. I cannot see myself making 467 HTML pages to "close the gap" with the print version.

I think an ebook created for Microsoft Reader2 is better than any HTML ebook compiler/reader (for fiction) It has speech (not that I care) and it can handle web links unlike its previous version. The main thing is it has excellent navigation. I don't say it can replace a HTML ebook in all instances, but for fiction--yes.

The Clickbank or PayPal link in an ebook has always been a good idea. There are a number of compilers that allow this kind of thing. I personally no longer do this, as I said, I dropped my HTML ebooks in favour of other formats. I wanted a single automated system that will serve all my formats to a customer. They can download all of them or one for the same price. I chose cgi to protect a download area that will also send passwords via email automatically. Clickbank sends my customers to the cgi once payment has occurred.

As for demos, I have chapter samples on my site as web pages--in the end, it seemed the easiest way.

The lending issue was on my mind from another forum--sorry. I was thinking about the Ebook Pro compiler and how you can "switch off" someone's copy of the ebook if they try lending it to a friend. I have found that as soon as someone learns of this "switching off" they flatly refuse to purchase. They always buy a different version.

I DO agree that lending is bad--for a demo its okay.

Posted on: 3:12 pm on April 16, 2002
Neenah13 Hello,

I'm using the Activ Ebook Complier for my fiction.  I love the creative possibilities it gives me.  I like being able to add graphics easily to whatever I'm doing. I design all the backgrounds for each one and whatever other graphics I want or need. My kids' books will likely have more graphics than my romance novels have. But I figure a nice backgound and one or two grapics for effect that go with the story makes a nice looking product. I've even done a picture book using HTML based pages and the Ebook Compiler.  

In some of the ebooks I have bought-- I buy and read them as well as create them-- the whole story is in one continuous file. It may have pages designated, but still, it's one long file. What's the difference, really, when you're not going to be literally turning pages no matter what e-format you're using?  

In the first book I compiled, which was 155 or so pages in Word, I divided up into 104 pages HTML. The second book, I broke up into 160 pages of actual story text plus the index or cover page, dedication page, title page. author bio and TOC. Each chapter is five pages long. It was much easier for me to do the TOC that way. I may, however, do the next book with chapters of 6 pages--if it turns out to be as long as this one was.  

Since most of these compilers need MSIE to work, it allows me to use page transitions and other fun stuff. So my books have pages that "turn", or dissolve, or whatever my fancy wishes.  To navigate the book, I don't rely on the forward and back buttons only.  At the top and the bottom of each page, there are links to the next page and to the one previous, plus one to the TOC.

Of course, I go through the whole thing to make sure it all works properly. Then I send a test book to my sister who tells me what she thinks overall. Lets me know if something doesn't work. The other formats are fine, but I personally like HTML. Black on white doesn't have to be the only way to go.

I made a template for the background and settings of the novels which was a time saver.  You can also convert your work to HTML right in Word or WordPerfect or whatever WYSIWYG editor you like and go from there.  I, though, prefer to code using the toolbar I created especially for what I do within my favorite HTML editor-- the simple Arachniphilia.

Moreover, Hardshell Word Factory and Diskus Publishing offer ebooks in HTML.  These are the sites I've bought most of my ebooks from.  So if the e-publishers themselves are publishing books using HTML, I see no reason why I shouldn't continue doing it.  

As far as someone lending the book--well, people lend print books to others all the time.  Sometimes the borrowers go buy their own copy.  Making money is part of my plan-- but getting read by others is my main one.

If you feel like checking it out, I offer a free download of the first three chapters of the shorter book and the first seven chapters of the longer book.  There are samples of the picture book on site as well, but not in ebook form.  

Hope this helps!


Posted on: 1:46 am on April 17, 2002
EbookHeaven Hi Neenah,

I have no problem with people using HTML if they want, it's just that I have found my other formats more popular. I started my ebook site in 1998 under the name Waipara.com, but a year later I dropped the name and began Ebookheaven. I have been concentrating upon POD for my own books for the last year or so--maybe I'm out of touch with the ebook scene and should revisit the HTML ebook.

What do you think?

As far as reading one huge scrolling page, it's just not me. I guess I'm too traditionalist when it comes to books. I want to read a page at a time. It just feels more natural that way for me. I don't like scrolling too much on websites, so scrolling ebooks is out for me.

I don't think I want to add graphics to my ebook (apart from the cover of course, which are already in) My fiction is not for children like yours, so it's not really expected. My ebooks are roughly 1.2 meg in size. Adding a lot of graphics will bloat the file size even though I use WinZip SE.

You didn't mention if the forward button works without progressing through the book once. I'm guessing it works the same as Internet Explorer and uses a page history to work.

I'll have a look at your demo--thanks

Posted on: 2:58 am on April 17, 2002
EBookCompiler Just thought I'd answer a couple of tech questions that came up in this thread

Back/Forward in Activ is going thru the history

In 4.2 and later you also have have the option of Next/Previous which will follow the sequence you set up in the files tab.  If you look in the Advanced Features section of the Help (in version 4.2 and later) it tells you how to setup these up and the difference between Back/Forward and Next/Previous

Regarding the Table Of Contents.  The best thing to do is to make your own Table Of Contents page or pages.  You can set your own page from the Table Of Contents tab in Edit System Pages, Table Of Contents tab.  More detailed instructions in Advanced Features section of the Help also. If you are smart about how you lay this out you can fit a lot of stuff in a simple form.  The Help e-book for example has a pretty big number of pages and most people seem the navigation is okay.  There some books that people have made on CD-ROMs which contain many thousands of HTML files, and they are I think okay to navigate around if designed right: use HTML features like tables, graphics, or dynamic HTML to do expanding menus, and you can make  even a massive TOC very usable.

Posted on: 3:23 am on April 17, 2002
EbookHeaven Thanks Sunil,

My experiance with Active Ebook is an old demo copy. I have a number of compilers here, and I was pretty sure those controls used the history.

I didn't know that newer versions have another set of navigation controls. Sounds like a fine idea to me.

A quick edit: my Activ demo is version 3.02

(Edited by EbookHeaven at 11:53 am on April 17, 2002)

Posted on: 11:48 am on April 17, 2002
EBookCompiler 3.02 is from about August 2000 or so

We are 2 major, and numerous minor upgrades, since then

Version 4.0x (from early 2001) adds a whole lot of features including
- customizing About, Password + TOC page,
- all new help docs
- save/load password lists, including saving into script files in VBscript, C, Java, JavaScript, Perl, PHP
- a whole bunch of user interface customization options (like toolbar settings etc)
- rebranding
- activ variables + preprocessor
- build series,
- simpler sorting of the files list
- support for add-in extensions (these are add-ons to allow ebooks to do things that we didn't think of when writing the compiler - ex:www.ebookpower.com)
- programmer's API - allows anybody (with the right programming skills) to create an extension
- Activ Quick Project
- Activ Script
- and a whole bunch of other things

4.2x (now, just finish beta testing, will imminently become the official version)
-  ability to do form processing locally (on the client using Activ Script)
-  ability to call Activ Script for JavaScript/VBScript
- edit pretty much all the text of menus, messages, toolbars, etc. (to allow translation or additional customization)
- extra options for the splash screen
- a whole bunch more user interface customization options, including the Next/Prev options
- more security
- more security options
- and a whole bunch more stuff I can't remember off the top of my head

In summary, the difference between 3.02 and 4.0x is pretty huge both visibly (in the user interface of the compiler) and under the hood (in the program code).   The difference between 4.0x and 4.2x is huge under the hood, but the visible changes are much less.

Posted on: 1:53 pm on April 17, 2002
EbookHeaven Sounds good Sunil,

Maybe I should download the new demo--I'm guessing that there is one. I'll take a quick look at the Activ site.

While I'm here, can you tell me why I always receive 3 email notifications from this forum when someone replies to my posts? They aren't notifications for separate posts, but for the SAME post.

Great forum though.

Posted on: 3:55 pm on April 17, 2002
JohnDodson Well,
Sunil answered the question about Next/Previous buttons and then you can also use shared borders to accomplish that also.  Just depends more on how much work you want to do with that one.  Next/Previous buttons are much more proficient when provided by the ebook.

Then a young lady mentioned scrolling a whole chapter which was my opinion also.  I can't stand to scroll all day.  With pages you can use the bookmark function and be at the page you left off on.  Very nice.

I did download one of your demos and thought it was nice, just a little more scrolling than I prefer.  But to be honest I would Poll my customers to see what they would prefer and go from there.

You can use drop-down quick jump scripts to navigate and all kinds of tricks like that to ease the navigation.

It is more work to do pages however if the result means happier customers then it's worth it.


Posted on: 9:59 pm on April 17, 2002
EBookCompiler > While I'm here, can you tell me why I always receive 3 email notifications from this forum when someone replies to my posts?

Dunno.  I don't get that.   It's an off-the-shelf forum script, so it does what it does.  One day we may change to a different script.

Try unchecking "Do you want email notification of replies?" next time you post

Posted on: 11:13 pm on April 17, 2002
ceo I use Clickbank for my ebook sales !
But for most other things I use Paypal.

[[ John - Paypal too takes a cut of 2.9 (almost 3%) on transactions ! ]]

Both are good & reputable.
Paypal has the hassles of account creation.
Clickbank of a setup fee & (for me) maximum price limit (Anyone here selling upwards of 200$ items through Clickbank ?)


Posted on: 12:01 pm on May 21, 2002
JohnDodson Ceo,

Your right, after a while I gave in and made a script for ClickBank because it is less hassle for the customer.  PayPal is much cheaper for you as the seller, but Clickbank is better for the consumer because there is no sign-up hassle for them.

The best thing if possible is to offer both, then you will make a little more off paypal and if they don't have PayPal, you will still get a sale through ClickBank.

Just to throw this in though, since I started selling my script to Activ Ebook Compiler owners, I have been selling more PayPal than ClickBank scripts.  A whooping 50 to 1, so the thing is PayPal is a little more widely known and used by the consumer than we all think. (or we choose to think :-)

I do agree with you though.


Posted on: 3:15 pm on May 21, 2002
ceo Hey John !

[Quote] A whooping 50 to 1, so the thing is PayPal is a little more widely known and used by the consumer than we all think. (or we choose to think :-)  [/Quote]

Yes John, atleast I did know that Paypal (5-15 million users) is FAR more popular than Clickbank.
I previously used Verza a lot & they were awesome (3% & no setup & no account creation) but they stopped.

John, I find your script VERY interesting, innovative & useful. However, I've not yet authored an eBook and have no immediate plans. Should I create one anytime later, I'll remember to come in here & purchase from your site.
Your rates are VERY Reasonable as far as the effectiveness for the seller is concerned !
Best wishes on it's success !

Posted on: 4:25 pm on May 21, 2002
Jeff K I agree with John, Clickbank fees are OBSCENE. It's a license to steal. Not only are you charged a monthly fee, but you have to pay a high commission, they withhold 10%, and you don't get paid for a month. Did I mention the setup fee. You're working for them, not yourself.

I might add, that I received a referral fee with Clickbank.  Now they don't want to pay me, because I need 4 sales from different States or Countries. If there are no new referrals, I'll never see a penny. What a joke. I told them to close my referral account, and either send me a check for the balance or credit the merchants account.

I use PayPal on my website, and I get immediate payment. I can transfer the money to my checking account which only takes 3 to 4 days. Of course, I accept checks by mail.

Posted on: 7:23 am on September 5, 2002
EbookHeaven Clickbank IS expensive, but they DO NOT charge a monthly fee. I have never been charged one. As for payment, I simply set a figure in my account and Clickbank cuts a check when my account reaches it.

Overall, I'm satisfied, though I would like to see the costs come down. I use PayPal on my site also. Sales seem about 50-50 since I introduced PayPal shopping cart.

Posted on: 2:12 pm on September 5, 2002
Wiplinger I have also Clickbank, but it is also a pain:

1. They change the rules as they like!

2. New e.g, is that you have to make 4 sales in 4 different areas to get money at all.

3. If you do not make money, they deduct you every 2 weeks 1.-

I am not very happy about  them, especially their attetude sucks.
I made hundreds of affiliate links, and I can hardly believe, that NOBODY whithin one year every purchased anything (my log says I sent about 25,000 people to other vendors). Has anybody get something from a click hop (I think that is what they call it) ????

Posted on: 5:43 am on September 11, 2002
EbookHeaven Wiplinger wrote: I have also Clickbank, but it is also a pain:

1. They change the rules as they like!

2. New e.g, is that you have to make 4 sales in 4 different areas to get money at all.

3. If you do not make money, they deduct you every 2 weeks 1.


I can't believe our experiances are so different! I have made quite a bit through affiliate links. I use the hop links to send people to buy products that I have personally tried. I haven't made $1000s but I have made a few hundred doing this.

Can you point me to this rule about 4 sales in 4 areas? I have heard nothing about this. Are you certain you read it right? It's unbelievably bad idea if true.

I have never heard of money being deducted if you do not make sales. No one I know makes a sale every single day. I have good weeks and bad weeks. I have never been deducted for not making a sale. I have been ripped off, but that was by someone who wanted my stuff for free. He got away with it too. All he had to do was buy my stuff, then after he downloaded it, he instigated a chargeback.


Posted on: 4:27 pm on September 17, 2002
EBookCompiler I don't think they deduct money (they never have for me since at least 1999) except for refunds or charge-backs - which aren't their fault anyway.

4 areas rule is in their newest client agreement - BUT I do understand this is discretionary, so ask them.  I imagine this is an anti-fraud measure, but don't know for sure

Posted on: 9:30 pm on September 17, 2002
EbookHeaven 4 area rule? How does that go? I mean, I sell ebooks and only ebooks. You sell an ebook compiler. Both of us have just the one area. How the hell can a properly themed website stick to such a rule?

I'm glad this is only for new clients!


Posted on: 10:09 pm on September 17, 2002
EBookCompiler No it's 4 GEOGRAPHICAL AREAS

Like if you got all your orders from New York, New York, they might decide to wait to pay you until you have 5 distinct geographical locations for your customers.

I think the reasons why this might help in preventing fraud are fairly obvious

And my understanding is it applies to all ClickBank clients - of course any ClickBank client who has been active for a while, is likely to have long surpassed 4 geographical locations

Posted on: 2:03 am on September 18, 2002
EbookHeaven Ah ha!

That does make a lot of sense and incidently makes me feel like an idiot for not thinking of it. I have been using Clickbank since 1999. I must have passed the geographical test a long way back.


(Edited by EbookHeaven at 2:04 pm on Sep. 18, 2002)

Posted on: 2:03 pm on September 18, 2002
Jeff K Here's their obscene regs.

Customer Distribution Requirement:
ClickBank accounts cannot be used for the sole purpose of collecting rebates, or otherwise extending credit to yourself or others. To ensure compliance with US law, ClickBank will withhold payment of any account balance until it contains purchases by customers located in four or more distinct countries, states, or provinces.

Dormant Accounts:
Accounts with a positive balance but no earnings for an extended period of time are considered dormant. In each pay period a 50˘ charge applies to accounts dormant for 3 months, a $1 charge applies to accounts dormant for 6 months, and a $5 charge applies to accounts dormant for 12 months.

They won't pay me for a hop link referral because of the first reg, and they'll start deducting money from my account next month because it's inactive. They won't even transfer the money to the merchant as I requested.

Like I said, a license to steal.

Posted on: 3:23 am on September 22, 2002
Neenah13 I sent in my application to ClickBank after making all the necessary changes to my site, but it's been well over the 3 business days they say it takes.  Haven't heard a thing.  While I've noted all the pros and cons in everyone's posts, I'll probably try again because I'm looking for ease of delivery. I want to offer downloads with PayPal, but---I sure don't want to leave a back door open.  I don't know . . . I guess I'm not put off too much by ClickBank's fees.  However, since I'll be offering mainly fiction books--for the moment, anyway--I am a little afraid of the inactive account thing . . .

Apparently, though, it's possible to build a page that should prevent someone from bookmarking or otherwise trying to link back to the download site, for I ran into one at Ulead's site.  Bookmarked the page where the free trial download is.  Didn't think about it at the time, I just wanted to bookmark the site, not that page particularly. I even used the link a time or two afterwards to check out the product's description again.  (You know . . .dreaming whilest deciding whether to purchase right now . . .)

Well, after a few months, a new version of the product came out.  I used the link I'd saved and got a page telling me--very nicely-- that they didn't allow people to bookmark the page I was trying to get to.  Took me completely by surprise--yet, I was impressed, too.  

This could  possibly solve my problem.

Only--how do you build a page like this? How do you get it to come up when you need it to?  I viewed the source page, but was completely baffled.  Didn't even try to copy it so I could puzzle it out.  Figured that'd be nixed as well.

I re-read the post about having people download the book--and then pay through PayPal.  I'm figuring they need a password for the book, right?  What would prevent them from downloading and just skipping off?  I haven't played with the password option yet.  Maybe I should.  For some reason, though, I'm nervous about using them.  Plus, since I have a habit of losing them, I don't really like being bothered for one when I buy a download.

And lastly, how big is too big for emailed books?  I have three: a picture book that's about 1.3MB, and two novels, one's not quite 1MB, and the other is !.7MB.  I don't think any other book I plan do will go over that last figure.  Of course, those are famous last words for me.

Appreciate any advice . . .


(Edited by Neenah13 at 1:58 am on Sep. 25, 2002)

Posted on: 8:44 pm on September 24, 2002
EbookHeaven Hi Neenah,

The ebook size is an issue with some people because of download times. My ebooks are around 1meg each, but I do sell three of them as a bundle (a promotional gimmik) I think the sizes you quoted sound very reasonable. I wouldn't worry about them were I you.

You can stop bookmarking a number of ways. You can use java script to stop someones browser from caching and bookmarking pages, but this relies on them having java turned on. You can use a php download page that is generated on the fly also, but I don't know exactly how.

I have simply used a password system that logs entries into the bookmarked area. If you check the log now and then you can see if someone is abusing your site and ban the user or IP adresses.

I use Clickbank to sell my stuff, but I also wanted to offer customers the choice of using a PayPal shopping cart system. I found this site:http://www.payloadz.comPayloadz allows you to upload your product to their secure sytem and set up an email that is sent to your customer with specific download instructions. The download URL is different everytime and has a time limit attached to prevent abuse. If I remember right, there is no setup fee, and they charge less than Clickbank does per transaction.


Posted on: 11:18 pm on September 24, 2002
Neenah13 Hi Mark,

Thanks for your response.  Think I'll head over and check out Payloadz after I leave here.  Might be just what the book doctor ordered. Wouldn't mnd knowing more about setting up the password system to check the bookmarked pages.

I figured the file sizes of the books were okay, but I'm the sort who'll download a mountian if it's what I want. So, I thought I'd just toss it out and make sure.

I am offering all three of my books for a discounted price on floppy and cd, but I haven't figured out a price as a download that I can be happy with.

Do I price it lower than the the other formats, including print, just because its an ebook?  I think of all the work I did to write them and then design all the graphics, do the HTML, compile the book and wonder just how much of that time and effort I should pretend never happened.

Most downloadable fiction books are pretty inexpensive.  However, on a couple of sites, I found them priced as high as a print book or cd.  And that was for just one story.

I don't want to price it out so high no one wants them, nor so low that there's no profit in it.  People are hitting both The Book Shelf and the Book Shoppe sections of my site more than ever, and some are downloading the sample chapters. So, I figure the sale has to be somewhere there along the horizon.  At least, I hope so!


Oh, BTW, I subscribed to your newsletter--twice, I think, by accident.  Nothing happened after I clicked it the first time.  Since the box usually disappears after the submit, well . . .I clicked again . . .  I got 2 acknowledgements of my submission, so I'm fairly sure I signed up twice.

Posted on: 3:21 am on September 26, 2002
EBookCompiler With the PHP solutions to stop bookmarking there are several ways it could work, now the interesting thing is you wouldn't actually be able to see in your browser this merchanism, if done right.

I *may* experiment with adding a script to scriptrocket.com for this purpose.

Posted on: 4:13 am on September 26, 2002
EbookHeaven Hell again Neenah,

Don't worry about signing up twice. The system knows and deletes any repeats.

I'm having problems with my webhost at the moment. Yesterday I found my site was completely down, and today I just came home from work and it's down again (I hope it's down a second time and not STILL down from yesterday!) I cannot contact anyone because EVERYTHING is down including their so called 24/7 help desk! I hate webhosts, I'm sure I could do a better job of it myself

You asked about the password system I use on my download area. I use a CGI system fromhttp://www.lockedarea.comI have been very pleased with it. It doesn't stop someone copying your ebook of course, but it does administer your download area and gives you some control.

I sell ebooks very cheaply. It is the only way to overcome people's wrong impression that they should somehow get ebooks for free because they are "not real books" They don't care that the manuscripts took a year to write, all they see is an intangible product. So yes, I would sell downloads cheaper than a CDROM, and a CDROM cheaper than a printed book just as a paperback is cheaper than a hardback.

$5.95 for a downloaded 300page novel seems about right. Non-fiction can literally be anything. I have bought ebook downloads for $49.95 and even more. It depends on what the book is going to do for me. Only you can judge its worth, but you should price your book to compete with like products.


Posted on: 11:37 pm on September 26, 2002
Neenah13 Seems like downtime on the old web site is a curse for us all. Fortunately, mine wasn't down as long as yours must have been. I use Hosting Matters and I've been happy with them for the 14 months I've been with them. They've upgraded the service twice since I signed up and they've been quick with the support when I needed them.

The one time they weren't was when they were switching us over to new servers. I'd lost the pricing schedule and needed to know what hosting for a year was for my plan. During the changeover, they apparently lost my helpdesk ticket and all my inquiries regarding this matter.  

They somehow also lost my account details which resulted in months of free service to me. I alerted them to the error when I accessed the new billing and accounts center and found they had me down as a member since this past summer. That explained why I hadn't gotten an invoice in a while. So I reminded them of when I actually had joined and figured my plan of paying for a year's worth of service would be going to pay for the months past. But no--they've chosen to let it go and mark my account as current. I can't thank them enough for that as we're really drowning right now.  

They have a bunch of plans to choose from. Something for every budget and need.

From your response and my sleuthing, I think I've priced my novels about right, then. The longer book is 400+ pages printed out in 10 pt. Times New Roman  I really hated to use such small print, but 12 pt. adds around 120 pages  Should I ever decide to finance a print run, I don't want to have to charge $25 a book for 'em.

Which is why I chose to make the pages just a little longer in the ebook. I love designing them, but coding all those pages does get tiresome. I tried using Word 97 to help me with that, but it adds such odd and stupid codes at times, that I quit using it. WordPerfect is not so crazy, but I haven't put it to the ulimate test yet. I'll probably give it a shot  with my next venture, though. I've got three to finish--although only two will be ebooks--unless I can get my partner and whatever publisher we land this time to agree to letting me have those rights for the third book. But I doubt it.

I'll hop over to Lockedarea after I leave here. I did go over to Payloadz and I'll probably try the free service and see how it does. The pay per month deals may be worth it down the line, but not right now. I could wish that the amount you're allowed to make in a month on the free account was more than $150, but, I suppose they have to draw the line someplace.  

Thanks so much for your help, Mark!


Posted on: 2:34 am on October 6, 2002
needleme I use Linklok to deliver my crochet patterns automatically to customers after payment.  I use Paypal, but Linklok is available for Clickbank and a few others.  I paid a low one time fee (30 bucks)and there are no monthly fees or per sale fees after that, which I like.  Also the security is the best and so is the tech support.  I put a link in my signature below.  I donated a page on my site to tell folks about it.  I have used it for years and love it.  So does my customers on eBay.  You can tell by the comments in my feedback there (my handle is needlemethat, if you care to take a look).  Anyway, thought I would mention it.  I value my patterns very much and have found Linklok more than adequate to handle my deliveries.  Also, the set up is soooo easy.  Thought I would pass the info on.  I searched for months for a script like this one and haven't been disappointed yet!


Posted on: 5:04 am on March 19, 2006
Storyman Hi Vicki,

Does Linklok allow you to use 1,000 passwords or is the number of passwords limited?

Posted on: 8:00 am on March 19, 2006
Nightshift i use 2checkout.  However doesn't seem to be real good as far as obtaining affiliates, customer service is good.

Posted on: 10:49 pm on April 3, 2006
BestEbookTrade PayPal is the best payment method online nowadays bro.
Many big online company still using PayPal.
Just PayPal, dont think about anyting else. Trust me

Posted on: 10:15 am on February 21, 2009
BestEbookTrade Have you try Moneyebookers?

Posted on: 1:28 am on March 8, 2009
bullguy For me it's Paypal all the way. I don't know when some of thes posts were written but you don't have to have a Paypal account to pay.

Also it's instant in my account and I can use my business card and get cash back. Paypal is cheaper, instant, and the most secure. Come on, I use clickbank for my affiiate programs but for a payment solution NO WAY!!

Posted on: 4:01 pm on March 11, 2009

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