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Archived Message:

Anyone use Automated Password System?

Storyman Microcreations offers an APS (Automated Password System) that works with ClickBank and PayPal. If you have used the program what has been your experience?

Also, would like feedback on the password generating portion of the program.

Your comments and suggestions are appreciated.

Posted on: 7:36 am on May 16, 2004
Storyman If you want to check out the program:

My main concern is that in order to allow the end user to have instant access to the e-book, (after purchasing from PayPal or ClickBank,) the entire list of keycodes need to be loaded stored within the e-book.

The only time this would be a problem is if/when a creep hacks Activ e-book and gains access to the all of the key codes. Otherwise, Microcreations' system appears to be an ideal way to handle the sale of key codes.

Any experience or thoughts on the subject?

Posted on: 9:28 pm on May 17, 2004
paulg I've been using the PayPal version and it works fine: it's certainly neater than messing about with PHP pages (which I've also done). I agree there is a marginal risk of being hacked but there again no system is ever going to be 100% secure.

Posted on: 11:33 pm on May 17, 2004
Storyman Have you found using only PayPal any hinderance in selling your books?

As for security it would seem that creating a PHP/MySQL could well present a greater risk considering that there are more creep hackers who are going to attempt breaking into an online database than an ebook. At least that is the way I'm weighing it right now.

Posted on: 12:28 am on May 18, 2004
paulg I find Paypal is fine, certainly a better proposition than Clickbank

Posted on: 3:27 pm on June 12, 2004
Storyman I would not mind going the ClickBank route if others have found that there is a good possibility of return on investment.

So far I have been unable to locate any 'real' discussions on the pros and cons of ClickBank. In fact there is little serious discussion on the comparision of benefits and cost regarding any of the marketing avenues. At least I have not been able to find them.

Can anyone share their experience and insight with any of the payment services available?

(Edited by Storyman at 7:43 am on June 12, 2004)

Posted on: 3:40 pm on June 12, 2004
JohnDodson I have made a profit from of both.  Two benefits that ClickBank has and PayPal don't is the Affiliate Program and a huge variety of credit cards accepted.

PayPal does let a customer use Visa and MasterCard if the customer does not have an account now. It is cheaper to use PayPal certainly and you can do more things with it like shopping carts, donations, etc.

So, I think it really just comes down to preference on the sellers part.  They both do have their benefits.

Posted on: 8:19 pm on August 7, 2004
Storyman John,

Is there a chance that you can back that up with numbers? I mean is customer preference between ClickBank and PayPal 50/50 or something else.

The second part of the question is if the books that you sell through ClickBank also have a link to PayPal. I'm guessing no because ClickBank is tracking sales, but thought I'd ask and make sure my assumption is correct.

Posted on: 9:05 pm on August 7, 2004
JohnDodson The preference as far as customers that I have had have been real close.  I would say 40/60.  40 percent using ClickBank and 60 percent using PayPal.  That's a very accurate number.

As far as the second part of your question, I am not sure what you mean.  I have an ebook that has both a PayPal button and a ClickBank sales link in it.  From the sales on that ebook I would say about 45 percent pay me with ClickBank and 55 percent with PayPal from that ebook.

Posted on: 9:41 pm on August 7, 2004
Storyman Not having used ClickBank some of it remains an enigma for me. One thing that isn't clear about CB is if you post a book on ClickBank and affiliates place their own branding on the book what happens when there are links to both CB and PP?

My understanding is that CB will divy up the money between the affiliate and the originator, but what happens when the user clicks on PP? Is PP even allowed as a payment option when using CB?

Posted on: 11:56 pm on August 7, 2004
JohnDodson I believe you are getting confused.  PayPal has nothing to do with ClickBank or vise versa.  They are two seperate ways of processing payments.

I really can't get into the systems that I have made to give the customer instant access because Sunil doesn't want anyone advertising in this part of the forum.

However, you can put a PayPal button in your ebooks or on your site and a ClickBank sales link to sell the same ebook.  It just gives your customer the option of paying through PayPal if they have an account, or using a variety of credit cards (through ClickBank) if they don't have a PayPal account.

With the ClickBank Affiliate program, someone joins to sell your product and gets a hoplink from ClickBank.  When a customer clicks on your affiliates hoplink it takes them to clickbank to make the purchase.  Once the purchase is made, your affiliate gets the percentage that you put in your account manager and you get the rest (less clickbank charges).  This works totally independent of PayPal or any other payment processor you use.

PayPal does not have an affiliate program so basically the only person selling your product is you.  When a purchase is made, you pay the PayPal charges and get the rest.

So, what it all boils down to is this; you can use as many payment processors as you want to use.  PayPal is limited to people with an account and Visa or MasterCard.  ClickBank allows other people to sell your product and give them a commission (meaning you will probably sell more) and the customer can use some 10 to 15 different kinds of credit cards.

If you are targeting PayPal members only, then PayPal is the best way to go.  If you want everybody to be able to buy your product, then ClickBank may be a better choice.

No matter what you choose or if you choose to use both, the money being split up between you and an affiliate only applies to ClickBank.

I hope this long winded explanation helps you understand a little more clearly.


Posted on: 6:38 pm on August 8, 2004
Storyman John,

Yes, I understand that PP and CB are separate enitites. What wasn't clear (and I'm still unclear about) is if you can include a PP payment link in an ebook that is listed on CB?

Thanks for the clarification on how payments are made to the affiliate and originator on CB. Does CB do a direct deposit to a bank/check account or ???

I'd imagine that an originator of an ebook has to created two versions of an ebook. One with only a CB link and a second one with CB and PP link.

In other words are people selling books through CB that also include PP payment links permissible? It seems that I remember seeing somewhere that CB will only allow a CB payment link on products sold through them.

Your feedback is appreciated.

Posted on: 8:46 pm on August 8, 2004
JohnDodson About you getting paid, they send you a check at the amount that you want to accumulate.  In your account manager, you specify how much you want your account to build up to before they send you a check.  The minimum is $50.00 and when your account gets up to that amount they send you your check.

As far as you having more than one payment processor for a single ebook there is no policy by ClickBank (that I could find) stating you can only use them.

There are quite a few people that use more than one and I do as well.  If they decide to tell me I can't use more than just them it would definitely be a bad decision on their part.

But, things change so it is something they could do later on if they choose but I would think that would hurt their business so hopefully they won't implement that type of a policy.


Posted on: 2:25 am on August 11, 2004
ebookpro I think that the affiliates are the ones who object to having both options -- a Clickbank affiliate would lose out if they direct a customer to a page who then pays using PayPal.

I know of some Clickbank merchants who have a page set up for their affiliates so that they receive credit for their referrals - and another page for people wanting to pay via PayPal.  It's a bit controversial to have both payment options on a page or in an ebook, but I haven't seen a policy by Clickbank banning other payment providers from being listed.

It's up to the merchant as far as I can tell!


Posted on: 5:00 am on August 17, 2004
Storyman Eva,

Thanks for the follow up. Previously, I had looked through your site for an article on the subject, but could not find one. Maybe you'll want to consider it for an article.

This is getting off the subject, but one thing that bothers me with all of the information found on marketing and sales of ebooks there is no empirical data to support any claims of success or failure. In some ways the claims made can be compared to UFOs. People claim that they seen ‘em, even ridden in them, but the stories are all anecdotal.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a believer in ebooks and believe there is a market for them, but how much of a market eludes me without hard facts. It is the outlandish claims that people who sell ebooks about making money with ebooks that raises an eyebrow. It reminds me of the guy who decades ago ran classified ads advertising how to make thousands of dollars in your spare time. When you sent away for his secret he basically said to do what he did and put an ad in the classified ads.

Your site is at the top of my list when it comes to disseminating ebook information. What I’d like to see is a move toward Publisher’s Weekly with some hard numbers. (Okay, everyone fudges on numbers, but PW does give a fairly good picture of the publishing landscape.)

(Edited by Storyman at 9:45 pm on Aug. 16, 2004)

Posted on: 5:43 am on August 17, 2004
ebookpro Yes, it would be great to get hard numbers on sales -- the big internet marketers are making big sales... I've seen it happen.

But, unless you are a big name author, I don't hear of big sales for fiction authors that often. At least that's the general consensus from the numerous authors that I am friends with.

Nonfiction seems to sell in certain niche markets (ie. weight loss, investing, self help) but I don't have any numbers to back that up.

I think that people are unwilling to give up their sales figures -- I have heard this from discussion groups consisting of authors and epublishers.  Would be nice if we could find some data on sales!


Posted on: 4:11 am on August 18, 2004
Storyman Eva,

That’s pretty much my conclusion. IMHO ebooks are tremendous for the self-help genre and a natural because it is a medium that uses both text and visuals with motion.

Do you have any recommendations for news groups?

(Edited by Storyman at 9:08 pm on Aug. 17, 2004)

Posted on: 5:07 am on August 18, 2004
ebookpro Hi Storyman,

Unfortunately, I don't follow the news groups anymore -- not for quite a few years.  

I agree that the nonfiction genre has plenty of potential, especially self help and personal development topics... though any niche market will likely work with the right marketing techniques and unique bonuses!


Posted on: 1:31 am on August 23, 2004
bigbook Back to the real topic, I just bought the software and followed the instructions. I didn't get it to work, but am getting closer. Just sent an email the author for a hand.

I'll follow up and let you know.

In the meanwhile, I also looked into other programs and "vaults". This one seemed to be simple enough and the price isn't over the top.

Posted on: 9:59 pm on December 23, 2004
bigbook Microcreations responded promptly and found the problem I was having.

System works now. I used PayPal. PayPal accepts credit cards directly and, for my market, more people know of paypal than clickbank.

I did notice, however, that there is a code snippet that ebookcompiler has that seems to do the same task, but only with clickbank.

Posted on: 5:22 pm on December 27, 2004

I did notice, however, that there is a code snippet that ebookcompiler has that seems to do the same task, but only with clickbank.

It isn't clear which task you are referring to.

Posted on: 6:39 pm on December 27, 2004

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